Vertex Axis Wah

[Uilliman Coscine Terzo 5807]

ma mr bbe dice che conosce vertex da poche settimane e che non hanno rapporti. .. come fa a comprare le board dalla bbe se la bbe non li conosce?

[molokaio 1057]

Beh sono ambedue in una brutta situazione se ci pensi. E' un coltello a doppia lama affermare che si vendono parti di un proprio prodotto per farne uno migliore. 

Oppure ci possono essere anche accordi di riservatezza. che ne so... e poco me ne importa    E' solo una telenovela in piccolo alla samsung\apple

 

E' un wha. che diavolo si può fare in un wha? solo cambiare i componenti.

 

Credete che le pcb di altri pedali derivati siano diverse dagli originali? sono solo ridisegnate e ristampate, ma sono le stesse. un ts9 resta un ts9. Un triangle resta un triangle.

dal poco che ne capisco di elettronica. Dam per un periodo ha usato pcb byoc per fare il rams

Fa ridere che si parli di queste cose come se fosse elettronica avanzata e pionieristica.

[Uilliman Coscine Terzo 5807]

ma guarda, se uno dice paghi tot perché prendo lo wah dal negoziante, te lo modifico dentro e gli cambio la scatola è un conto. se me lo vendi come se fosse tutta farina del tuo sacco è diverso. tra l'altro se comprano le board all'ingrosso altro che il raffronto 150 dollari-350....

[electric swan 1271]

Cazz ve ne fotte. Finora l ho comprato solo io e il Baol.....

[Uilliman Coscine Terzo 5807]

nulla, è solo per fare un po' di rissa tipo kimbo slice

[Ragionier Randa 406]

Cazz ve ne fotte. Finora l ho comprato solo io e il Baol.....

 

 

E' proprio quello il punto, tutto questo puttanaio serve per dire a voi due che l'avete preso nel baugigi.....  

[stronghand 180]

mi sembra la solita solfa...

 

a me il vertex è piaciuto e l'ho preso...

 

http://youtu.be/zC_xAukEERE

 

[electric swan 1271]

Bello il BBE cazzo!!!!!

[Giorgè 3716]

Bello il BBE cazzo!!!!!

Vero cazzo!

 

Qui comunque suonano identici!

 

[Melchiade Bedrosian Baol 506]

io il mio vertex l'ho fatto fare nel solito sottoscala di casoria da cinesi sottopagati, gli stessi che mi fanno le masterbuilt

[Asdfghj 1051]

io se c'è una cosa che non sopporto sono i video test-comparazioni in cui suonano col calzino, con l'infra o a piedi nudi in mutande

 

 

un minimo di buon gusto su

 

[Giorgè 3716]

io se c'è una cosa che non sopporto sono i video test-comparazioni in cui suonano col calzino, con l'infra o a piedi nudi in mutande

 

 

un minimo di buon gusto su

 

Sò yankees, che cazz t'aspetti...

[Ospite]

Mr. Vertex ne sta uscendo a pezzi su TGP.

Just because almost everyone uses the same Vox circuit topology doesn't dictate that the pedals themselves will look anything alike inside or outside. Many wahs also have little additions.

I don't know how anyone can look at the two gut shots and think they are look at anything but a BBE wah, but then I guess most people don't know what they're looking at, because they aren't sourcing parts or anything like that.

For review, here are the pictures:

[url=http://i60.tinypic.com/30hr1js.png]Side-by-side #1

Side-by-[url=http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL880/3449618/16744400/409799526.jpg]side #2

[url=http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL298/2208596/24574210/409821353.jpg]Degooping

[url=http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL298/2208596/24574210/409823660.jpg]degoop next to inductor.

[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/CodeMonk/409819136_zps38dc81de.jpg]Bottom of the board, showing no desoldering. (I guess you'll just have to trust people who know what wave soldering and a desoldered PCB looks like)

Lots of people have pointed out that the resistors are the same. That's irrelevant ... 1% resistors all look basically the same.

Let's start with the capacitors -- those colorful little boxes.

There are several manufacturers of box caps: Epcos, Kemet, and Topmay are very common. Box caps are of uniform size and shape, meaning that you can mix and match manufacturers easily. The markings might be different. But most people source caps of different values from the same company, simply to keep things uniform and to reduce the chance that you'll misread the marking on the capacitor and use the wrong one.

You can read that as: The likelihood that two manufacturers will use the same color of capacitor in exactly the same place on a PCB as very small. The likelihood of mixing multiple manufacturers in buying your capacitors and ending up with the same combination of colors is also very small.

And just to be absolutely, 100%, crystal clear: The color of the capacitor has nothing to do with its component value. It's simply the manufacturer.

So why does the BBE have different color capacitors? Because it makes it easier for the assemblers to put them in the right place. In other words, BBE is buying a ton of one particular value of capacitor from one manufacturer to ensure that the PCB assembler can look at a colorful layout say "Blue goes here, yellow goes here," without needing to read the small markings on the capacitor.

Topmay are [url=http://www.smallbearelec.com/catalog/Topmay-Box.jpg]dark gray. You can see one of those near the inductor in the degooped pictures, labeled "104" -- the same color, value, and marking as the same capacitor in the same position on the BBE wah.

Epcos are often blue. You can see one of those in the lower corner of the board where it was first degooped.

Kemet are often yellow. You can see plenty of those on the BBE board.

The big green caps are "greenies." I'll give the "too close for coincidence" a pass here because the PCB was designed to use those capacitors, and the lead spacing (the distance between the two metal legs sticking out of the capacitor) is very particular.

There are other capactiors that are also the same in the degooped one. The electrolytic capacitors next to the inductor are also identical. Electrolytic capacitors are ALSO very particular looking. There are dozens and dozens of different looking ones. In other words, Vertex had to settle on the exact same electrolytic capacitor out of dozens of different-looking ones.

The pot:

It's [url=http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpost.php?p=18288066&postcount=517]already been pointed out that the wah pot is not manufactured by any of the companies Vertex claims they get pots from. [url=http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=362]Wah [url=http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=934]pots [url=http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=1018]can [url=http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=364]also look quite different from each other, but knowing the marking means that the manufacturer blatantly lied about the manufacture and source of the pots, never mind that they are the same batch of pots in the BBE -- the same wah that has the same capacitors and PCB.

The inductor:

Inductors are one of the most varied components out there. In every way. First, they are nearly impossible to manufacture to tight tolerances. This is why some wah builders (Joe Gagan comes to mind) measure the inductance and resistance of the inductors they use. Second, their appearances vary greatly. [url=http://i55.tinypic.com/am5gs0.jpg]Here's a non-exhaustive picture showing over a dozen different appearances. Third, although the inductor itself only has two pins, the number pins that hold them into the PCB can vary. Some only have two pins. Some have four. The pins aren't necessarily in the same place. For a great example of what a PCB looks like when you try to account for lots of different inductors, look at [url=http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/WeenerWah/WeenerWahII.pdf]Madbean's Weener Wah. It's down there in the lower right of the picture on the first page. Vertex claims that it winds its own inductors. You have to believe that they just happened to end up with an inductor with the same number of pins on the casing as the BBE wah.

The wire itself:

Manufactures are typically kind of picky about their wire. The wire between the two pedals appears to be the same gauge; the same color; secured and routed in the enclosure in the same way; with the same markings. You'd have to believe that Vertex is sourcing its wire from the same place as BBE's Chinese factory.

The paint on the nut at the bottom of the enclosure:

Some people have mentioned that this is "just loctite." This is ignoring its real purpose: It's actually there to determine if the user disassembled the pedal.

The enclosure:

Wah enclosures from large manufacturers are rather particular. The Crybaby, Vox, and BBE enclosures, for instance, are all slightly different. But you can buy enclosures ... they're $47 from Smallbear or Pedal Parts Plus. The cost of the enclosure is a big reason many people simply modify wahs instead of building from scratch. However, most people gut the pedal and replace the PCB.

The PCB:

This has been rehashed so many times in the thread but: You should not believe someone if they tell you that they're sourcing a PCB from a major manufacturer for years. There is absolutely no reason to do this. I know some people who have gotten a hold of authentic PCBs for an MXR pedal. They cost around $20 each. Wholesale. There's no reason to assume that BBE would be selling its PCBs in the first place; but it is QUITE the stretch to believe that someone would choose a blank PCB at that kind of cost as its build platform. A PCB about the size of the one in the BBE would cost less than $2 from a fab house. A layout that size might take a skilled layout designer 3 hours start to finish, and figure $50 an hour. If you're sourcing EVERYTHING else, you have the capital to get your own layout done.

----

For review, this is what you have to believe to think that this is not just a BBE wah, gooped and sent on its way:

1. Vertex sourced capacitors of identical colors and identical manufacturers and identical values for identical places on the PCB.

2. Vertex sourced identical wire as the BBE.

3. Vertex's claimed "in-house" inductor is identical to the one manufactured by BBE, despite the significant variance of appearance among inductors.

4. Vertex source identical enclosures as the BBE, and didn't just replace the baseplate, tread, and nameplate.

I'll try to come up with a good analogy.

Imagine that a real estate agent blindfolds you and takes you to a house they have for sale. When you walk in and they take the blindfold off, it's identical to your own house -- everything is identical. Not just the same room dimensions and floor layout. The same front door. Same paint job. Same rugs. Same curtains. Same refrigerator with the same leftovers. Same couch and dining room table. Same toothpaste in the bathroom. The same prescriptions in the medicine cabinet. The same house number. The person selling the house insists that it's a different house, and to prove it, they pull some envelopes out of their pocket and show you that there's a different person's name on the mail they received at this address, and describes all the places that they sourced the bits of the house from.

The house costs twice as much as yours.

Would you buy that house?

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Guest Alucard]

Imagine that a real estate agent blindfolds you and takes you to a house they have for sale. When you walk in and they take the blindfold off, it's identical to your own house -- everything is identical. Not just the same room dimensions and floor layout. The same front door. Same paint job. Same rugs. Same curtains. Same refrigerator with the same leftovers. Same couch and dining room table. Same toothpaste in the bathroom. The same prescriptions in the medicine cabinet. The same house number. The person selling the house insists that it's a different house, and to prove it, they pull some envelopes out of their pocket and show you that there's a different person's name on the mail they received at this address, and describes all the places that they sourced the bits of the house from.

The house costs twice as much as yours.

Would you buy that house?

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

La risposta é si' se sta tentando di venderla ad un chitarrista  

[Giorgè 3716]

Comunque tutto confermato, è un BBE.

[Guest massy]

che poraccio...

[Guest massy]

Comunque tutto confermato, è un BBE.

prevedo una salita verticale del prezzo dei BBE usati, manco fossero una reliqua di Cristo

[Giorgè 3716]

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1458484&page=66

[Ospite]

Ho sbagliato mestiere....

[molokaio 1057]

SD1 a 400$? 

Ci scrivo Robz sopra!!!

[Ospite]

Pure il pedale volume.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1335149

[Uilliman Coscine Terzo 5807]

è definitivamente il mio eroe

[molokaio 1057]

arion chorus! 

[hivez 1063]

Boh, il fulltone mi piace di più. :D

[Enrì 366]

arion chorus! 

 

pveso..... :)